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GA Review

[edit]
Passed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 04:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Island/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: ForksForks (talk · contribs) 12:54, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs) 08:05, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

[edit]

I'll have a go at this one.

  • The 'Definition' spends a lot of time on continents, especially Australia, basically off-topic. Please cut it down.
    • Done
  • The 'Etymology' is slightly backwards, as we wait until the last sentence to discover the cognates, complete with an apologetic "is actually a cognate", as if Swedish were somehow a less-valued language, very odd. Please restructure so that we have the real etymology first, all of it; and then (I suggest a separate paragraph) the false etymology, trimmed to reduce repetition (the 3 mentions "false ... incorrect ... etymologically unrelated ..." are all synonyms, and we don't need the wikilink on "etymologically" either).
    • This is an artifact of the previous crufty version of the article. Should have rewritten but was scared to touch, thank you!
  • 'Geology' alludes to atolls in paragraph 1 but doesn't introduce them until paragraph 3. Suggest rearrange.
    • Attempted to make this make more sense
  • The 'See also' list of lists is excessive; since 'List of islands' is actually a misnomer for 'List of lists of islands', all the links to other lists of islands (listed there in that list of lists) should be removed as duplicates. 'Island country' could be a 'further' link for 'Political significance', and again remove it from 'See also'. (Not sure that 'Political significance' is quite the right heading, maybe 'Island nations and territories'.)
    • Done
  • 'Island biogeography' and 'Island ecology' are obviously important subtopics, and they are in fact briefly discussed (without naming them!) in 'Life on islands'. Please name and link them there (and remove them from 'See also'); I'd suggest you restructure the chapter with subsections with these as headings and "main" links.
    • Done
  • 'Life on islands' should discuss and illustrate Island gigantism in a short subsection (it's part of Island biogeography); there is good material with sources to select from in that article, which should get a 'main' link. The subsection should mention Foster's rule and Insular dwarfism too. Perhaps the section should be named 'The island rule' to cover both gigantism and the lesser-known dwarfism.
    • Done
  • The last paragraph of 'Life on islands' is evidently about 'Conservation of endemic island species'. Obviously the concept of endemism needs to be discussed (populations evolve in isolation [French isolé="put on an island"], become new local i.e. endemic species), and then the conservation of endemic species can be explained in that context. I think you'll need a 'further' link to endemism. From there, you should discuss dispersal (by flying, swimming, floating on rafts, blowing in the wind...) and hence the idea of diverging evolution on island chains or groups (adaptive radiation): and that will be the place to introduce Darwin and natural selection. So the section will need a bit of rearrangement - I think you will be able to reuse most of the existing text, but with this logic and a new set of subsection headings (maybe 'Endemism', 'Dispersal', 'Evolution on island groups', 'Darwin, the Galapagos, and natural selection').
    • Done
  • The subsection on 'Conservation of endemic island species' could be placed separately alongside '[Impact of] climate change': both sections affect life on islands, and both have human causes, so they will fit well together. There seems no reason to place one in the 'Humans' chapter and the other one outside it really, so perhaps both should go in a new 'Threats' chapter.
    • Done
  • The 'Islands portal' adds nothing to the article; here the reader gets links in precise and explained context, there the reader gets random links with no logic to them. Suggest we remove it.
    • Done, I just wanted to avoid making possibly contentious changes, but I agree with you.
  • Not sure why a modern article needs to list the short and outdated 1911 EB text, either.
    • Done
  • Earwig flags one page as a close match (48.5%). It looks to me as if they have directly copied Wikipedia, and indeed they mention us shortly afterwards, so no worries there.
  • "Many island nations ... generally have little land" - could be improved. Having little land on an island is definitional (islands are smaller than continents), so no need to hesitate about it.
    • done
  • "Bananal Island" - please add that it's in the Tocantins of Brazil.
    • Done

Images

[edit]
  • Suggest the caption for Kansai Airport has the city name "Osaka" added.
    • Done
  • Similarly, the Outer Banks caption should add that it's off the East Coast of the United States.
    • Done
  • Several captions just describe their images, without saying why they are relevant to the article. E.g. "A tropical beach in Malapascua, the Philippines": well, so what? The caption needs to say "Tourists are attracted in large numbers to tropical beaches, such as to ...". The same goes for several other captions, so please check all of them.
    • Interesting, that was the idea I had for how captions were meant to be, but will switch. This is good info.
  • All the images are on Commons and plausibly licensed.
cross section through Earth at the Hawaii hotspot. Magma from the mantle rises into the lithosphere, creating a chain of volcanoes as the lithosphere moves over the hotspot.
  • The 'Formation in oceans' section would benefit from an image explaining the formation of island chains.
    • Done
  • The kangaroo/Australia image is basically off-topic for this article. There is no shortage of endemism images on Commons, so please replace the image with something more suitable, such as of island gigantism to accompany the suggested text more closely.
    • Done
Adaptive radiation of finch A (Geospiza magnirostris) into three other species of finches on the Galapagos Islands. Due to the absence of other birds, Darwin's finches adapted to new niches. Their seed-eating beaks evolved to handle foods such as nuts, fruits, and insects.
  • The Galápagos turtle image is a possible choice for the Darwin subsection, but I'd suggest you might do better to replace it with an image of Darwin's finches (and link that article) as these much more directly suggest the evolution from the island endemism story. For instance, the image of adaptive radiation of Finch A into three other species tells the story rather plainly.
    • Done

Sources

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  • [1], [15], [27], [30] are all Britannica. This is not forbidden exactly, but it does seem rather intensive use of the tertiary source; we certainly prefer reliable secondary sources.
    • Tried to pretty extensively take care of Britannica. I think I only couldn't remove one cite (Bananal island)
  • [3] is a dead link (and seemed a dubious source), please replace.
    • Done
  • [12] is not a journal paper; there are many better sources on atolls.
    • Done
  • [18] is a desperately old (1968) source for island ecology and biogeography. Please follow the suggestions above and the provided wikilinks to obtain more up-to-date sources for this chapter, there are plenty in the linked articles.
  • [21] is ok, but article has made very heavy use of it for the human geography.
    • Found a couple more sources, want more.
  • [28] is a whole book. Please provide page number(s).
    • Done
  • [29] - ethnogeriatrics! This may be a reliable source for facts on geriatrics, but it is presumably just copying from other sources on the history of the Pacific islands, on which it can't be an authority. Please find a better source.
    • Done
  • [31] - what makes Ballard Brief a reliable source?
    • Found a better source and a more neutral claim
  • [35] please add second author (you have Fisher, need Hirschfeld also).
    • Done
  • [36] Fang, Duan is a whole book, please provide page number(s).
    • I used a snippet of a chapter without page numbers from science direct, threw that in.
  • [37] and [38] Mirasola are the same source, please merge them.
    • Done

Summary

[edit]
  • Nom has recently rewritten this article, mainly in a single draft, starting from an old but mainly geographical article. The new 'Humans' chapter is a large improvement; the new 'Life on islands' chapter too is very welcome, but needs rearrangement, linking, and illustrating. Suggestions have been made on the article's illustrations, and for adjustments to the text. Some attention is needed to the sources used. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:47, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

[edit]
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 12:07, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Source: [1] page 2045
Improved to Good Article status by ForksForks (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

ForksForks (talk) 14:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • As a Good level article, this automatically passes several of the criteria, such as length and very obviously using in-line referencing properly and all of that. The nomination was passed yesterday, making this new enough. All three hooks are good and their refs check out for the info and for in-line usage in the article for the information. I'm more partial to the first two than the third one, personally, as the most interesting. No QPQ needs to be done as this is your first nomination. Looks good to go! SilverserenC 21:52, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Silver seren: per the DYK criteria, a GA pass is not sufficient for DYK purposes – the DYK reviewer has to re-verify that the article meets DYK criteria, even on the same points. A bit cumbersome, unfortunately, but would you mind taking a look for me? (Also, ALT1 fucking rules. Animals can ride tropical cyclones???) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 10:22, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Apologies for my lack of clarity in my response above, theleekycauldron. I did check for those anyways, it's just that length was very apparent and I looked through for in-line referencing, copyvio, and the rest anyways. I was just making a generalized statement about it being a Good article. I did still check those criteria. So, still SilverserenC 21:05, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        • I don't know if this kind of comment matters, but I would be happy to use ALT1 if people prefer it. No preference from me. Someone suggested "....that an island is land" for an alt as well, which is pretty funny to me. ForksForks (talk) 13:11, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Types of islands

[edit]

Who deleted the section "Types of islands" and why is this important section deleted? 42.3.15.131 (talk) 00:48, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This was discussed in the Good Article review above: the reasoning is stated there. Hope this helps Remsense ‥ 论 00:51, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, nothing about types of islands was discussed in the Good Article review above. Most of the discussions were focused on island biography. 42.3.15.131 (talk) 02:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If possible, could you go back in the revision history and link an old version of the article that has the section you're speaking about? Remsense ‥ 论 02:20, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would prefer to see you go and find it yourself rather than just asking other people to do it for you. This time, I will do it for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Island&oldid=1223610495
42.3.15.131 (talk) 02:30, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're the one asking other editors to do something, I'm just trying to make sure we're talking about the same section, since it was more than a little unclear—I had to guess, as there's no section named "Types of islands" here. Remsense ‥ 论 02:32, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to assume you mean the contents of the "Relationships with continents" section: frankly, the information in the present "Geology" section discusses these concepts and distinctions far better than just endless lists of examples with less than stellar understanding of the material. If you want a list article, peruse a list article—there are a few listed in the See also section. Remsense ‥ 论 02:36, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That means you are not a regular contributor of this article. Otherwise, you should know what I was talking about. A lot of useful information has been deleted since I last viewed this article. 42.3.15.131 (talk) 02:39, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty sure it would've been unclear to most, but that's beside the point. As per above, I think what you actually want is a list article if you're referring to what I think you are—you still haven't explicitly indicated the section or content in question. The present article after the recent rewrite by @ForksForks demonstrates a far more holistic and digested understanding of the subject, and I'm not sure what specific passages you'd even want to re-add. Remsense ‥ 论 02:56, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the help in the thread. Yes, I did feel bad de-listifying the article, but the door is open to a List of types of islands article, if such a thing could be proven notable.
In general, I think this is more encyclopedic than the old version, which was more trivia-like, and hopefully most people see that. ForksForks (talk) 12:40, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, please stop posting a duplicate of this section. One post discussing this will be sufficient. Remsense ‥ 论 02:37, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
STOP deleting other people's posts, it is very rude! This post discusses about the "Types of islands" section. The other post is a request to restore this section, they serve different purposes. 42.3.15.131 (talk) 02:41, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're very clearly saying here that the section was good and you'd like it back. Making duplicated sections is confusing and takes up needless space, especially given you're using your own personal terminology per above, not what the article actually says. Remsense ‥ 论 02:43, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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